Social Media SECRETS From an Indie Musician Coach – Shay Leonia | Podcast Ep. 050

Subscribe to my YouTube Channel: CreateGrowProfit
Listen to the Podcast on Spotify: CreateGrowProfit: Coaching Stories

Get In Touch With Shay Leonia

• Shay’s Instagram
• Shay’s Podcast

Interview Transcription

Morris: Welcome to CreateGrowProfit: Coaching Stories. I am Morris from creategrowprofit.com and today I’m speaking to Shay Leonia and she’s helping Indie musicians from being so discouraged by the industry that they quit. Shay, thank you so much for being here, where are you calling in from today?

Shay: I’m actually calling in from Philadelphia.

Morris: Great how’s the weather? I know you said it’s pouring rain. Is it still bad?

Shay: It just calmed down for a moment but my goodness I thought I was going to get swept away a few minutes ago.

Morris: So yeah let’s hope we keep the connection so, Shay what kind of people are you working with today and what kind of coaching do you do?

Shay: I am an indie musician coach and what I do is I help independent musicians to create a career on their own terms on, their own idea of what success means because I feel right now that a lot of the messaging that’s out there for independent musicians is very geared towards a one-size-fits-all message and that is what continues to feed into the discouragement of these musicians that just figure, “Hey I don’t have the vanity metrics, I don’t have the listenership and I’m not going to make it big so I might as well just stop altogether.

Morris: What are some of the vanity metrics that Indie musicians are pressured by the industry?

Shay: Oh my goodness! It’s all about social media followers. It’s all about how many people are listening to your song on Spotify. How many people are presaving? How many people are coming to your shows? Those are all the numbers that will instantly make somebody feel like a failure if they’re not living up to the hundreds of thousands number mark that has been set by whomever it is.

Morris: Yeah and you’re right like being good on social media isn’t the same as being a great musician right?

Shay: Absolutely not. Yeah completely inequal.

Morris: So you mentioned the one-box-fits-all approach in the industry, I think it’s quite similar with the coaching industry too, where you see coaches copying what the big coaches do and it becomes this homogenous kind of content and see of coaches that we observe online. How do you help your Indie musicians find their way?

Shay: Oh that’s a great question. So I absolutely have my system set up when approaching work with a new musician especially if I don’t have a relationship with them prior to us working together. But I really do just try to find out where are the source spots, where are the places where, it’s the most difficult for these musicians to be consistent and I find a lot of the time, it ends up starting with social media.

It ends up being a huge huge lift for them to continuously show up on social media whether they don’t know what their message is, what their branding is, what story are they trying to tell, what mission do they have to convey to their audience. They just find themselves desperately posting just to post, just so that their pages don’t get dusty and so once I’m able to determine that, that’s when I’m able to work backward and implement a lot of the systems that I like to do which I consider to be 90s methods.

I’m a very big millennial. I even have a show called the Millennial Musician Podcast because it’s very difficult for millennial musicians to wire their brains in a way that accepts social media as being part of this marketing machine but what they fail to realize is that there’s still a hefty amount of history and evidence from the decades before social media where people were still able to promote themselves whether they were signed to a major label or not.

So I like to really find out, okay well, what could you be doing that has nothing to do with social media but social media could help amplify. So once you’re able to find out those tactics then it becomes easier to show up on social media.

I think another piece of it is that part of the blanket advice that they’re given is you need to be showing up on social media every single day. Well, that might not work for you especially if you’re a musician or a person period that values work-life balance. It might be more realistic for you to be consistent by being by posting once a week and if that’s something that you want to start off doing, let it be enough. Let it be okay that you’re just showing up once a week but as long as you’re able to make that one time be intentional, strategic and so that you don’t feel like you’re just wasting away on a platform scrolling endlessly and wishing that people were liking your posts.

Morris: That quickly leads people to quit in all Industries. You mentioned something that I really like you said I’m just going to call it the ’90s promotional methods, is that okay?

Shay: Absolutely yes!

Morris: Before social media or how you said things outside of social media, I really like that because I think that is the key to this online world in many ways is do something offline and then talk about it online as opposed to living purely online and playing the social media games. Did I understand that right?

Shay: Yeah absolutely. I think you know we’ve heard this phrase as musicians our whole lives as artists period. That art imitates life but I feel like people don’t apply this same rule to social media. On social media you have to be proving, you’re constantly going on there to prove to someone who you might not even know or ever meet or hear from.

Just existential person that is practically your confirmation bias on whether or not they like what you’re doing and instead of being performative for them, you start to detach from who you are. It’s really this separation this pulling apart and once you have that friction between who you are and who you’re portraying that’s when you start to lose yourself.

That’s when you start to have this resentment towards this tool because essentially social media, all it is is a relationship tool. It’s supposed to be there to help make your life more convenient. I think one of my biggest wake-up calls was when I started working with clients that were based in the UK who were I want to say that they were Gen-X and they had actually lived on the streets in LA when they moved here and they were really roughing it and they were packing manila envelopes with their CDs and sending or cassette tapes back then and sending them out to major labels.

So when it came time for me to work with them, they were like, man these kids have it easy today. We went through the trenches and it was never as easy as just sending somebody a DM but if you talk to somebody who’s only ever known the struggle of showing up digitally, it’s suddenly this heavy lift like, I have to click to open another window or oh my God I have to actually research who this person is that I want to share my music with and I’m like yeah and it used to be way harder but you can go back to that if you would like.

Morris: So does the old way still work?

Shay: I think so in many ways and in fact I think that a lot of the old techniques give you an edge. They give you an edge in terms of longevity and I think stamina but I think that they also give you an edge in standing apart from the sea of sameness, that’s out there right now like you said the homogeneous environment that is marketing yourself.

Morris: So sounds like social media is a big part of your coaching or maybe not chosen by you but dictated by the industry.

Shay: It’s a pain point for sure for a lot of my clients.

Morris: What are some of the other things that you work on with your clients?

Shay: I would say the promotion after the song is released ends up being a huge dead end for a lot of musicians where they’re leading up to it and they’re so excited it’s like you know. I’m trying not to be filthy here but it’s like their first time having sex with someone. It’s like they’re so excited to finally do it but then after it’s done they’re like, okay bye, that was nice, call you sometime, see you later.

And they don’t know what to do after that and they don’t realize that there still has to be a strategy that doesn’t lead up to the point of release and then stop completely because nobody’s going to enjoy that after that. What you have to do is create a strategy that’s overarching the entire experience and really showing people that you weren’t just trying to get their attention the whole time just to do you a favor of checking out my music.

It’s more so that you have really created an experience that you think will enhance their life and if that’s the case, the promotion isn’t going to stop by the time the song is out. You’re going to find new ways for them to consume the material, new ways to find out what they actually think of the song. Do they know of anybody that they think it would be useful to hear in their car when they’re driving down the street?

If they need help going through a breakup, if they want the new song on their workout playlist. There has to be something that extends over time and I think my personal gripe and something that yet again another thing that I have to deprogram my new clients from is this thought of, oh you have to be putting out a song a month. If you’re putting out a song a month it’s too much. There’s this Anthony Fantano sound that bite that became popular where he was watching a pizza pie gets cut into a bunch of different slices and no matter how many times you thought that they were done slicing the pizza they sliced another slice and he said that’s too many slices.

And that’s exactly how I feel about the song of month approach, it’s just too much and you’re not giving your audience enough time to absorb the one-at-a-time song experience that they deserve. And that your music deserves.

Morris: Great analogy with the pizza. Yeah don’t slice my pizza too much please.

Shay: Yeah it’s too much and then it becomes nothing and you don’t and you don’t get to savor anything what’s left.

Morris: Yeah and thank you for making these specific examples because now understand much better which vanity metrics Indie musicians are dealing with, like one song for a month and the followers and posting every day. Interestingly what you said about the song, that reminds me a bit of you know people who create their first online course. Where you know it’s a lot of work creating your first online course and then it’s created and you put it out into the world and in reality, that’s when it only starts like that was just the first step. Now you’re going to spend months ideally years if it’s profitable, promoting that same course.

Shay: Yeah and I would love to continue with that analogy what’s interesting to me about how we all market ourselves whether we’re coaches or musicians is that a lot of times we will tell ourselves that once I have this thing, once I have the money to invest in this new platform or this exciting tool or this shiny new object that’s when I’ll be able to tie everything together and suddenly I’ll wake up and I won’t be a pumpkin anymore.

I’ll be a princess and it’s so funny because there are some really superb successful coaches out there who have started from Google Docs as their platform quote unquote of choice for hosting their course and to this day it was never broke so they never fixed it and people still pay them and invest very handsomely in working with them just to gain access to Google Docs for their course.

And it’s very similar with musicians it’s like, yeah you could record in some fancy studio but yet another obstacle that these Indie musicians face is that they’re being told you need to invest top dollar in a music video in which you’re recording, in what you’re wearing in the music video, all of these things that don’t necessarily matter when you’re first starting out.

So if you launch yesterday and you become some musician, you’re like I woke up today and I feel motivated to make music and be a musician finally. If nobody knows who you are you don’t need to be spending any money yet and it’s the same for coaches, start where you’re at with what you have available to you and being scrappy in that way is just going to continue to enhance your character.

It’s going to save your pocket and it’s going to really give you a chance to just show what your chops are. You don’t need the fancy things just to get started helping people and it’s no different between whether you’re helping people with a song or whether you’re helping people with knowledge.

Morris: Now you gave me an idea the scrappy marketing course. I would like that, the scrappy marketing.

Shay: Yeah. It’s got to be out there make it now.

Morris: I’m sure it exists.

Shay: I know for $27 somewhere.

Morris: Yeah the interesting thing about you is you know both worlds. You are a musician you have a very how do I say like, you have a long history in music already from your parents, I read that on your website and also you have thousands of followers on Instagram. So tell us or tell me a bit about your background in music and you know how you got started as a musician and then we can transition to you as a coach.

Shay: Sure. So as you were saying I was raised in a family of professional musicians. My father and brother, both professional jazz trumpet players, as part of that, they worked multiple jobs so they were music teachers by day, they were gigging at night. They were teaching private lessons in the afternoons doing you know parades and all types of random gigs. They were also studying at certain points under very prolific music teachers.

My sister was also a flutist and a trumpet player as well and they’re all much older than I am so by the time I came along, it was, I remember I want to say it was maybe fourth grade when the music teacher came around to all the classes and said, who wants to sign up for an instrument and they saw me and they said, oh we know who your family is all right give her a trumpet and so they immediately bumped me up because I had already known how to play trumpet from being just being in the sauce of my family.

And yeah I played trumpet all through high school but at the same time I was also a dancer and I was also singing and I was very very big in my dance school. So by the time I wanted to go to college, it just was a no-brainer for me I went to the American Musical and Dramatic Academy in New York and I went there on a scholarship as a dancer and a singer and graduated as a musical theater performer.

But I wasn’t really doing anything with it. I was facing very difficult financial circumstances in my life so I want to say maybe 2016 is when I finally started taking it seriously because I had only been dabbling up until that point. I took it seriously and was able to join a wedding band and then also by that time was an intern at Funkadelic Studios in Manhattan which is now the sponsor of my podcast.

And yeah and then I started teaching, songwriting in the South Rocks. Feel like the timeline is so garbled, it’s like all over the place but I ended up songwriting instructing as a Wedding Singer and then also in 2017 is when I launched my company and that was the most bizarre thing ever because I definitely would have never believed that I would have had my own company, helping Indie musicians.

Morris: That’s interesting. Hearing your story as a musician and then you say the most bizarre thing was launching a company.

Shay: Well you got, so I would say that as a child the weirdest thing for me would be to go over to my friends’ houses and for everyone to gather at the dining room table for dinner, there’s no music playing, I was like this is so weird because my experience growing up was that I would walk down the stairs and my father and brother would be battling it out on trumpet over like a night in Tunisia just like seeing who could play a lot better on the trumpet and they would just go back and forth and back and forth. And that was my every single day experience was just hearing music non-stop. And my mom used to joke that even though she wasn’t a musician she played the radio. So there was never silence in the house so being around silence even to this day is a little unnerving for me.

Morris: Do you have Spotify running in the background right now?

Shay: In my head, there’s always a jukebox going off in my head.

Morris: And then how did you start as a coach or when did you start coaching?

Shay: So that was at the hand of the woman that owns Funkadelic Studios. Her name is Dawn M Orlando. Like I said while I was an intern there, I ended up launching their very first social media management team and through that, we were able to increase her revenue. We were able to get better retention on her clients and at that time because this was before the pandemic, there were several competitors in the area of other rehearsal studios that people could go to but, time and time and again, would show up to the studio book a rehearsal room and say, yeah we saw that post that you made and that was so cool that you shouted us out.

And she was the one because she’s got this wonderful business mindset and she said, you know Shay, you really need to be doing this professionally and the opportunity presented itself later that year. Somebody said, hey I need help with not just social media management but I need help with booking and branding and all of these things and I have this music and I just don’t know what to do with it.

And so my very first pitch was well I don’t know how to do this professionally but I could do for you what I do for myself. If you want to pay me to do that so that was how I got my first client and funny story they ended up being a nightmare and I almost faced litigation with them. Not my fault but like it was such a great way to get thrown in the trenches and to learn very quickly and very urgently about what to do and what not to do but it led me to my next client who led me then to my next client and my next client and helped me get better and better.

But for the longest time I didn’t know that what I was doing was called coaching. I had no idea what it was called. I didn’t actually enter the coaching field and learn what it all offers until 2020 in the pandemic. That was my first foray into this thing called coaching.

Morris: And in that period before, what did you call thing that you did?

Shay: I didn’t have a name for it. I even surveyed my clients and I said what do you tell people when you’re telling them that you’re working with me what do you tell them that I do. Some of them said assistant, other on said I just tell them that you help me with social media, I tell them that my manager. Like all of these different terms that they came up with and none of them really felt right to me.

Morris: That’s interesting because I think outside of the coaching space, most people don’t know what coaching is. They just know it from sports of course in sports there’s a coach. But it’s usually coaches who understand coaching and people outside of that bubble don’t really have a word for it yet so I’m not surprised.

Shay: I couldn’t have identified back then if I had tried which I did.

Morris: But it sounds like you were always really good at promoting yourself or helping others promote themselves, was that natural for you or how did you figure that out?

Shay: Well I think I kind of Mr. Miagi myself and that I never considered that I was promoting myself, it was always just I had a commitment to really fostering strong relationships and making sure that they remain strong. I’ve always been somebody that likes to talk to people and be around people and support other people and so I was always trying to continuously be in that generosity mindset of what can I do to help somebody right now or are they having a show, can I make it? Okay I’ll go. Can I not make it? All right I’ll buy a ticket anyway just to support them. Is it somebody’s birthday that I just met, I’m gonna make sure I reach out and wish them a happy birthday.

But it was never a strategy thing, it was always just I want I love having people in my life and I want to make sure that I keep these people around. It wasn’t until I looked back, you know in retrospect and realized, oh my gosh that whole time you were really networking your ass off and it and that’s what paid off and that’s why I might not necessarily put out music as frequently as I would like to but damn, when I put it out, people show up.

Because I’ve always been there for them so I think that’s the part that is the long game that kind of people get impatient with. When I tell them, well unfortunately that’s what it is but it’s a fortunate thing. It shouldn’t be unfortunately or warrant any type of impatience to get to know people because essentially you’re making music for these people for their lives and you want to be connected to them and know what is going to affect them because that’s only going to enhance your marketing.

Morris: Yeah So beautifully said Shay. One follow-up question, this networking mindset that you had, did that translate to what you did online too like especially on social media?

Shay: Yeah I would say it did in the sense that I used social media to supplement what type of knowledge I was able to gather. So if someone is sharing you know that they just became an uncle for the first time on social media, then I’m able to maybe reach out in a more intimate way like take it over away from social media to a text if I have that relationship with that person.

Hey haven’t heard from you for a while but I just wanted to let you know I saw your post on Instagram congratulations on becoming an uncle, the baby’s perfect. just doing something that’s genuine so finding those genuine things and that’s super useful especially when you’re trying to reach out to journalists or people that have playlists that you want to get their music on but doing it in a way that’s not transactional.

I think that’s where the ball gets dropped a lot is I’ll never forget, like one of my first networking opportunities that I went to, it was this mixer at digiwaxx in Harlem and I was advised to start going up to people, tell them that I’m a singer, tell them hey you know here’s my nameand here’s my music check it out.

What a huge mistake. What a wonderful way to crash and burn at a networking event because I will tell you, I went up to people who to this day I remind them of this because now we’re friends, I went up to these people and I just hi my name is Shay Leonia and I have a Myspace music page and check it out and where do you go from there? There’s nowhere to pick up the conversation from then.

So I just made sure that when I was going up to people it was to learn about them not to present myself. I don’t need to be a walking billboard and I think the other piece of advice that I wish I could have gone back and told myself was stop treating this like it’s going to be your only time ever seeing this person. Because you would think like especially if it’s a celebrity somebody with some notoriety, let’s say a coach is going to meet Tony Robbins. Oh my gosh! I’m gonna be in the room with Tony Robbins. I cannot believe it. You go up to him and then you plead for your life.

That’s not the energy that’s going to attract somebody like Tony Robbins into your Universe. What’s going to attract someone like Tony Robbins is if you’re able to continuously see him over time, if you’re able to follow up in a way that’s thoughtful afterwards with the people that surround him not even necessarily him but his assistant, his booking, whoever it is.

To try to make yourself known in his orbit and to be of service, hey if you have any you know any market research opportunities coming up I’d love to be of service, if you need anybody working your booth or promoting you in this upcoming city that you’re going to be in, I’d love to help.

Things like that are what make you stand out and then people start to ask who is this person Shay that’s I keep hearing about her my assistant’s talking about her the doorman’s talking about her, my mailman is talking about her. That’s how you start to make an impression.

Morris: How do you deal with or how do you reply to the fear that people have that they would get taken advantage of in the process?

Shay: Oh there are tons. There’s a new opportunity of taking advantage of someone every single day and I would think the best advice that I can give someone with that is it’s twofold, I would say making sure that you’re not remaining silent. It’s not, it should not be embarrassing or shameful to tell people, hey I just got this weird email seems like too good to be true but I’m not sure can you put your eyes on it.

Don’t feel ashamed about asking for somebody else’s eyes because you’re still training yourself on how to identify these exploitative practices but the other thing I would say is to not be impulsive. Don’t, again, jumping on this as if you’re it’s your only opportunity that you’re ever going to get is going to land you in oh in such deep water. You need to really give yourself time to process the decision. To give yourself time to check in with your gut because your gut’s never going to lie to you. And to check in with your network about whether or not it’s valid.

Morris: Yeah that is great advice because right like when we put ourselves out there and we’re offering to help and support people, I mean I would love to say it’s not like that but sometimes people take advantage of that. The way I decided to deal with it is that you can’t avoid it ,right? Like if you start supporting people genuinely, you will get taken advantage of once in a while. But you’ll also reach other opportunities that you would have never reached if you didn’t do anything at all just because you didn’t want to get taken advantage of. Does that make sense?

Shay: Absolutely yeah and that’s such a great point that you bring up is because yeah while you are out here being generous. And I want to make a clear delineation, you’re being generous within the scope of what you’re capable of. You’re not going to overextend yourself beyond your means. Don’t go thinking like, oh I need to go pick up this person’s laundry just to make a good impression. It’s not like that.

It’s really just about like finding, asking yourself genuinely what can I do that I would be comfortable with doing and what is within my means but yes, you will find a point where suddenly it starts being very advantageous for the person that you’re being generous for and I would say to hearken back to dating advice. When it comes to that because if you’re continuously showing up for this person and there’s zero payoff, start to pull back, start to ask yourself, okay maybe this is when I go into phase three.

Where I kind of lighten the pressure, I realize that nothing’s really coming to fruition just yet so I’m going to give them some breathing room and try to come up with some other ways that I can be supportive. Maybe I can just keep liking posts on their you know on their social media feeds things like that.

And then re-enter with a fresh mindset on , okay am I still in alignment with this person? Do I still have the same objective? Are we still you know in unison but I think there is a very fine line I would say. One of the most damaging things that I learned from was, this is back in the Myspace days, I was following a very prolific songwriter on MySpace and that was back when blogs were very popular in Myspace and I read this blog that he had written about being willing to go anywhere at any time and I had that at as my Mantra but mind you, I was a young girl and I was by myself and this very famous rapper contacted me over Myspace and said, hey I like your music, do you want to come over and hear my album? It was 12:30 at night and I just said to myself, well if I really want this, if I really want to have a music career, I need to be willing to go anywhere at any time and I drove out and met this rapper and went to his home and I was assaulted.

This was someone who promised me, listen to my album then I’ll get you set up to start recording, he was signed to a major label, he promised me the moon and the stars and all because I didn’t trust my gut or ask myself what am I safest doing, what am I capable of doing within my means, I was taken advantage of in a very brutal way.

So I think those types of experiences where you put yourself in jeopardy because you want something so badly and you want to believe so much in the goodwill of people and the kindness and generosity of people, I think those are the people that really need to surround themselves with mentors and people that they are opening up to because at the time logically, if one of my friends had told me that they were thinking of meeting some man that they’ve never met before in the middle of the night, I would of course have said definitely not. Don’t do that. That’s crazy but because I was so ashamed of thinking well, what if they think I just don’t want my career badly enough or what if they do think that I’m stupid for thinking that this is a good idea.

I stayed quiet about it and being quiet about those types of things are what land you in danger and make you start mistrusting yourself.

Morris: Shay, I’m really sorry for that experience and at the same time, want to thank you for the courage to share it with others to learn from it.

Shay: Thank you.

Morris: I like how you said ask yourself if our objectives still align, I think that is such a good distinction to make, right? Yeah we want to be out there networking and live with the giving hand but always asking ourselves, do our objectives align? Are we on the same path?

Shay: Yeah.

Morris: That is. Yeah that’s the first time I hear about that.

Shay: Yeah it’s something that I wish that I listen to it more often because you know we’re so instinctually as human beings willing to chase after someone that we feel pulling away but sometimes it’s for the best. You know, when I was going to college Kanye West was the biggest deal in the world and he was my absolute favorite. You couldn’t catch me dead going anywhere near that man these days because our we do not align any longer and people grow and change and you’re allowed to change your mind and I wish that I would heed that own my own advice a lot more often.

Because I have been stuck in some situations where I’ve hired coaches where had I just taken a few more beats. I think I would have realized, oh this person’s feeling a little manipulative or wants me to drain my credit line just to work with them and that’s never a good sign.

Morris: Yeah and the other thing I really want to highlight is you made such a good distinction, there’s some people who, myself included, like to do too much for others and if you’re in that category, as you said that a pretty solid warning sign to get a mentor, get a coach and start opening up to your network and you know checking in but then there’s also the other group where there maybe, you know right on the other side where they never want to do anything for others.

I don’t know like if I can say it like that but I mean, we all I think we all intuitively know which camp we’re in, neither is better or worse, they both have their right like people who are more protective of themselves. They probably rarely if ever get taken advantage of and then the others yeah maybe you’re generous but you get taken advantage of regularly. So I think that was really good advice.

Shay: But you can’t build your bulls***t meter if you’re in the other camp. You won’t be exposing yourself to enough risk to get to fine-tune that meter because now I can sniff a scam pretty well from pretty far away. But if you’re not ever exposing yourself to that risk then you’re never gonna have that sensibility.

Morris: Yeah, no no. Yeah you’re right. That’s such a good point. One final question regarding your success on social media and with your company, what would you tell a coach who is now going on social media right zero followers zero following, how can they Implement your mindset in a you know daily or weekly activity?

Shay: First of all, don’t start off with automation I would say start off organically. Some automation that I would recommend avoiding if you’re just starting off is any chatbots, any DM or comment the word, you know like comment the word blog and my autobot will respond to you. No, you don’t need to do any of that right now. If you have no following and you’re brand new, that is an advantage and the advantage there is that you actually have the time to speak to people and to get to know them and to fine-tune what it is that you’re offering.

Don’t let a bot take that over because you want to make sure that you are actually having organic exchanges with people because that’s only going to help you foster what it is that you’re offering. I can’t even begin to tell you like what I thought my coaching was going to end up being versus what it did end up becoming all because I took that time.

And I think that too often people are like, oh no nobody knows me online and I just started, I’m brand new. That’s the perfect place to be.

Morris: Great! Thank you so much, Shay. Where can people find you? So if a coach struggling really likes what you’re saying, are you also open to helping other coaches or do you only work with Indie musicians?

Shay: Of course, no. I’m totally open to talking with other coaches. I love other coaches. I especially love keeping other coaches from doing the things that I’ve run into, that have made me just so yeah for sure absolutely.

Reach out to me on Instagram, you can find me at Shay Leonia and if you happen to be a musician listening to the show, I would love for you to listen to the what’s my show name? To the Millenial Musician Podcast, a tongue twister in itself because again, I just want to keep Indie musicians creating music because every song that they put out, has the chance to help or affect somebody’s life who they might not ever meet but they will never be able to put out that song if they quit.

Morris: Perfect! I will put your links below this episode and whoever is listening, if you’re thinking of quitting, don’t quit just yet talk to Shay first.

Shay: Yes.

Morris: Great. Thank you so much, Shay.

Shay: Thank you, Morris.

.And don’t forget to subscribe on my YouTube channel, @creategrowprofit.